Terminology question: doblete and doblada

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< FMA General Discussion ~ Terminology question: doblete and doblada

ap Oweyn

Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:39 am

Senior Student Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Alexandria, VA

Terminology questions in FMA are always a lark. Anyway...

The Guro of the Modern Arnis group I train with uses the terms doblete and doblada to describe two double arko movements. Or double circles if you like. One describes a double circle that remains on the same side of the body. Say a double forward circle from top to bottom on the right side. And the other describes a double circle that goes from one side to the other. Say a double circle that goes from your right high line to your left hip. Does that make sense?

I've come across a fair amount of terminology here that's unique to Modern Arnis. But I'm wondering if others use these terms and, if so, which is which? That's the bit I never remember.

Cheers.

Stuart

Pat OMalley

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:15 am

Site Admin Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 1025 Location: Everywhere

I have hear GM Diony use similar terms, like Doble Arco, meaning double arching circular strikes that is so comming in DP.

I am sure I have heard the terms in other places too, but for the life of me I cant remember at the moment, it will come to me though. Shocked

Best regards

Pat

_________________
I am a diplomate for peace, but there comes a time when you have to use full contact sign language for the hard of hearing

mike-a

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:31 pm

Junior Instructor Joined: 08 Aug 2006 Posts: 172 Location: Auckland, New Zealand

I've heard double arko as well as doblete, but from different places.

A double arko is when you would strike, say #1 and as the strike is moving down the angle, you rotate your wrist, striking a second time on the same arc. The thing is there is only one arm (or shoulder and elbow) movement, it's all done with the wrist. It's a term I've heard from Doce Pares and DiamonBAck eskrima (not suprising as DB comes from DP). Pekiti Tirsia folks call it florette.

The term doblete I've heard is from Lameco eskrima. You strike, again say #1, and the strike goes all the way through. Then you pull it over the head, life a roof or umberella action, and make the same strike through again. I say something similar in DiamondBack Eskrima, and the Pekiti Tirsia folks call it a fluid attack.

ap Oweyn

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:00 pm

Senior Student Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Alexandria, VA

The arko terminology was what we used in the Patalinghug school as well. We didn't specifically say "doble arko" but they were featured (going both directions) in a sequence they called the six-count arko. Come to think of it, what I'm describing as doblada and doblete both appear in the six-count arko.

Mike-a, what you're describing as a double arko is basically what I'm thinking of as either doblada or doblete (depending on whether it crosses from one side of your body to the other). The doblete from Lameco isn't what I was thinking of specifically. But it's interesting to hear how different systems use the same terminology. I haven't heard another term for that specific sequence before. Maybe just Angle 1 - Overhead (or "herrada") angle 1.

Thanks gang!

Stuart

kruzada

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:22 pm

Guest

Ap Oweyn,

Doblete as used in IMAFP Modern Arnis http://www.imafp.com/ is a small circular movement that is executed mainly with the rotation of the wrist, similar to the Florete of Doce Pares. The motion, in Modern Arnis, arcs in alternating motions left to right then ending in Serrada.

Doblada in IMAFP Modern Arnis is a larger circular movement that is executed with the rotation of the entire arm.

My system uses this terminology, and the term Doblete is used by GM Mena's Doblete Rapelon. Kombatan also uses the same terminology.

Hope this helps.

Rich Acosta
Kuntaw Kali Kruzada

Shaun

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:56 am

Senior Student Joined: 10 Nov 2006 Posts: 62

Hey Stuart,
Grandmaster Lema, the founder of Lightning Scientific Arnis used both Doblete and Doblada.Mang Ben would use either word to describe the same strikes.
In Lightning Scientific Arnis the Doblete/Doblada strikes are introduced quite early to a student,i.e when they are learning Doce Metodos.
Hope this helps.
Shaun Porter-L.S.A.I.

Lucy O'Malley

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:31 am

Guest

Doce Pares do in fact use a very simple terminology for the techniques you mention.

It will astound all....

Forehand Sirkulos (right to left),
Backhand Sirkulos(left to right),
Upward Sirkulos (up right side)
and Witik Sirkulos (flywheel on left side).

(Vice versa for left handed)

I was under the impression Doblete and Doblada just meant double but was not aware that they had a certain context for position of the stick etc.

And another example, although I could be wrong, is redoble means to repeat the double, like you get Bartikal Redoble which is an upward figure of eight, twice.

I know it does not answer the exact question posed, but I thought it would be a good example of the same techniques in another style.

Love Lucy love4

tigs

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:04 am

Guest

doblete, doblada, life goes on .... Wink

You sure this isn't a wind up?

Pat OMalley

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:49 am

Site Admin Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 1025 Location: Everywhere

tigs wrote:

doblete, doblada, life goes on .... Wink

You sure this isn't a wind up?

Absolutely not, and these are some of the easy terms you see crop up Laughing

But even though many do not stress on terminologie it is still nice to know and hear how other styles use the same terminologie ina different context Wink

YBIFMA

Pat

_________________
I am a diplomate for peace, but there comes a time when you have to use full contact sign language for the hard of hearing

ap Oweyn

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:01 pm

Senior Student Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Alexandria, VA

tigs wrote:

doblete, doblada, life goes on .... Wink

You sure this isn't a wind up?

It was my question. And, yeah, I'm pretty sure. Confused

Having trained at a Doce Pares school, a Modern Arnis club, and an Inosanto Kali club, I've seen numerous terms used to describe different things. And since the current club is conducted largely in Tagalog, I'm getting exposed to terms I haven't heard before or have heard in a different context.

Stuart

ap Oweyn

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:05 pm

Senior Student Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Alexandria, VA

Shaun wrote:

It does indeed. Cheers Shaun.

I'm not surprised to hear the two different terms used to describe the same movement actually. My experience is that most teachers don't get terribly hung up on terminology. So I was somewhat surprised to hear that MA has a different term for a double circle (sirkulo) depending on whether it remains on one side or goes from one to the other. But then my vague sense of Modern Arnis is that their curriculum is more delineated than many. (And I do mean "vague sense." Don't take that observation too seriously.)

Stuart

ap Oweyn

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:09 pm

Senior Student Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Alexandria, VA

Lucy O'Malley wrote:

That's essentially what my Doce Pares school calls them. Circles. When they're practiced as basic stick handling that is. When they're done as actual strikes, they called them redondo.

Quote:

I was under the impression Doblete and Doblada just meant double but was not aware that they had a certain context for position of the stick etc.

In Modern Arnis they seem to. But as I said, that's the only application of these particular terms I've heard.

Quote:

And another example, although I could be wrong, is redoble means to repeat the double, like you get Bartikal Redoble which is an upward figure of eight, twice.

Huh. Another new one. Cheers Lucy. I take it "bartikal" means "vertical" in the Tagalog alphabet.

Quote:

I know it does not answer the exact question posed, but I thought it would be a good example of the same techniques in another style.

It's well within the spirit of the original question. :)

Stuart

Pat OMalley

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:48 pm

Site Admin Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 1025 Location: Everywhere

As far as I am aware Bartikal is from Cebuano, well at least that is the term they use at the Doce Pares HQ and as they are all Cebuano I may just be making an assumption.

It's a bit like when I heard the term double Ikis Confused

I said, "and that means"???

GM Diony said, "it's means double X, but we cant say X so we say Ikis" I must admit it did make me chuckle.

I think it is like many of the words in many of the Filipino Dialects and Languages, they have been adopted and adapted from other languages, but again the double Ikis I know which is making two X combinations on the floor would be used in a slightly different context in another style.

YBIFMA

Pat

_________________
I am a diplomate for peace, but there comes a time when you have to use full contact sign language for the hard of hearing

ap Oweyn

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:50 pm

Senior Student Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 65 Location: Alexandria, VA

At least he's honest. Wink

Pat OMalley

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:11 pm

Site Admin Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 1025 Location: Everywhere

And a practical joker too, he always seems to be laughing Very Happy

_________________
I am a diplomate for peace, but there comes a time when you have to use full contact sign language for the hard of hearing

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