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| keithjames |
 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:47 pm |
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Student
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 24
Location: bournemouth
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Am i right in saying san miguel was the orignal style of doce pares?
what was the original styles that each master brought to the system?
how does the doce pares of today differ from the original?  |
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| Rick_nz |
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:10 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 1167
Location: Levin,New Zealand
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keithjames wrote: Am i right in saying san miguel was the orignal style of doce pares?
I believe when the Saavedra’s (sp?) were teaching it was the San Miguel Eskrima more so than the Multistyle system, once the Saavedra’s passed away.Euligo Canete took over Docepares original,while filemon concentrated on the Espada Y daga and traditional methods of teaching his art called San Miguel Eskrima.Gm Cacoy later added Eskrido to the original Doce Pares and is now called Docepares Eskrido.around about the same time GM Diony Canete son of Euligio Canete formed the multi-style system to preserve all the GM teachings in one system rather than separate the systems.
*the above is just my thoughts from researching the net*
Im sure Master Panto ,Steve or Pat could enlighten us on this.
keithjames wrote: what was the original styles that each master brought to the system?
A lot of influence was from Filemon Canete and the Saavedra’s
The abecedarios were implemented through Lorenzo and Teodoro Saavedra
Double sticks , Totsada Y Largada ,mano-mano and the forms was implemented through Felimon Canete
Long blade was implemented through Felimon and Euligio Canete
Knife work was implemented through Jesus Cui and Vincent Carin
There were many others that contributed to the forming of Doce Pares some written down some not.But I do believe the above names had a great contribution to the forming of techniques in the Docepares system
*the above is just my thoughts from researching the net*
keithjames wrote: how does the doce pares of today differ from the original?
I will leave this question to the likes of Master Panto , Steve or Pat  |
Last edited by Rick_nz on Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| lhommedieu |
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:43 pm |
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Senior Student
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 56
Location: East Northport, New York
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Riki -
http://www.northshoreac.com/san_miguel_history.htm
I also wrote this forward for Dan Anderson's book about espada y daga last year.
http://www.northshoreac.com/anderson_forward.htm
The first half of the article places Momoy Cantete's San Miguel Eskrima in an historical context. Substitute "Cacoy Canete's Doce Pares" for "Balintawak" and the argument still makes sense. The second part of the forward is more of a plug for Dan Anderson's book (that's what "forwards" are supponsed to do) but some of the points remain a propos.
Agapito Gonzalez' article about Momoy is excellent, in my opinion. He was my first FMA teacher and a great guy.
I think that Ramon Rubia was doing some research on Momoy and on the Saavedras. It would be great if he came out with an article or book.
Best,
Steve |
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| Rick_nz |
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:09 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 1167
Location: Levin,New Zealand
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Keith I think that link should answer your question
Another Good link from Brother Steve.
lhommedieu wrote: Agapito Gonzalez' article about Momoy is excellent, in my opinion. He was my first FMA teacher and a great guy.
Here is a link to that article http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/4831/agapito_momoy.html
Thanks Steve,I had forgotten that article 
lhommedieu wrote: I think that Ramon Rubia was doing some research on Momoy and on the Saavedras. It would be great if he came out with an article or book.
I think your right Steve (I think there was a discussion on MAP a while back), I think he was also going to write a book on Espada y dagger to as well, if I recall rightly.But haven’t seen or heard anything. |
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| keithjames |
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:28 am |
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Student
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 24
Location: bournemouth
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Thanks for your answers and links they have helped me alot
Keith |
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| depensaseguidas |
| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:14 pm |
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Student
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 5
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lhommedieu wrote: I think that Ramon Rubia was doing some research on Momoy and on the Saavedras. It would be great if he came out with an article or book.
Rick_nz wrote: I think your right Steve (I think there was a discussion on MAP a while back), I think he was also going to write a book on Espada y dagger to as well, if I recall rightly.But haven’t seen or heard anything.
Enjoy one of the article in the book below.
The Guerilla Resistance Movement in WWII during the Japanese Occupation in Cebu City: "The Captured of Teodoro "Doring" Saavedra, Chief Instructor of the Doce Pares Club"
Where I live and own a house in Cebu City was a hotbed of activity of eskrima before the war and during the war. It was the secret HQS of the guerilla unit of Lt. Jose Macabuhay. The place was a major activity of the cebu city guerillas harassing the Japanese. After the war, this group of individuals became well known local eskrimadors. Names like Delfin Lopez, The Atillos, The Paez’s, Navarro’s and others. Lt. Jose Macabuhay became the Chief Security of Sergio Osmena after the war.
Below are excerpts taken from a non-publish book or memoirs author by a local historian in cebu who personally knew Doring Saavedra during those days. It is a section in my book called “TheMy Journal of Eskrima: An American/Filipino Experience—A Principal Recollection of 10 years of Eskrima Research in Cebu” that I have been trying to finish in my researched. I had the chance to talk and interview this individual about local history and local eskrima or kali or arnis. He mentioned Esgrima was the correct term as he corrected me on the pronounciation of the word. This was 4 years ago and he just passed on recently at the age of 99 years old. They had their own esgrima group opposing the Doce Pares Club. The main instructor was one of the grand maestros at that time, his name “Eslao” Romo, along with S.Y., R.C., R.P., and L.A. The author’s younger brother was about to encounter Doring Saavedra, but lawyers and other people intervene or prevented it to happen because the weapon of choice was a sharp “pinute” as he sharply remembers the incident sometime in the late 1930’s.
Below are excerpts of some of the story from my upcoming book: “TheMy Journal of Eskrima: A Filipino-American Experience—Highlighting the significance and findings of my 10 years of Eskrima Research in Cebu”
“Then Mxxxxxxx Axxx with the guards and the under covers, appeared. The younger men were ordered to line up. Then Mxxxxxx who was clad with the jute sack, began to select those that were members of the guerillas. Many were picked up. Teodoro “Doring” Saavedra was grappled by the strong Japanese soldiers, also Dxxxxx Rxxxx, was wrestled by the Japanese, and both of them have shown their prowess of Judo and wrestling with their bound hands. When the Japanese found out that our experts were more superior to themselves they attacked the two one at a time by hitting each with iron pipes. Dxxxxxx Rxxxx with his hands tied at the back, charged at the Japanese with his flying tackle. The Japanese was thrown away and suffered some dislocations of his breastbones. Stronger Japanese soldiers came to the rescue and Dxxxxx Rxxxx suffered more hits. His head was bloody and due to much punishments; he was subdued. He was hanged under the schoolhouse. His two arms were well tied and his feet were secured with another long rope and he was dangling like a tightened cradle. When Doring Saavedra was hanged on the same way as was done to Dxxxxx, a Japanese soldier, thought of a swing and he rode on the back of Doring Saavedra, the weight of the Japanese on the back of a man. They made into a substitute from the cradle, is not comfortable to the victim, so Doring Saavedra jerked his back up to unload the swinger, due to the physical fitness of Doring, the head of the Japanese was bumped up the floor of the building. The Japanese passed out. In retaliation the Japanese soldiers concentrated their punishments on Doring until he too passed out.
To explain further; Doring was banged under the schoolhouse and the floor is not too high from the ground. Doring Saavedra was one of the strong men of Mambaling and Labangon barrios. He was the instructor of the Doce Pares specializing in Fencing Esgrima and Judo. Dxxxxx Rxxxx was a member of our K. P. or Self-Defense organization. Rxxxxxx Cxxxxxxxxxx, Sxxxxxxx Yxxxxxx, and my elder brother Lxxxxxxx Axxxxxxx were the instructors of our group.”
The story continues when other guerillas were captured and taken in to what they called “The Castle of Horrors” by the secret military police “The Kempetai”. From inside more torture and punishment where done to them…”Badly beaten Doring Saavedra was taken to cell five” and others like Rodolfo “Ponying” Quijano was taken to another cell. “Ponying” Quijano was also an orihinal founding member of Doce Pares serving as Sgt-At-Arms along with Nong Momoy Canete for many years in the 1930’s.
--Hope this helps, Keith. I will try to post a picture of a living descendant or a boyhood friend of Doring still alive. He is 87 years and ww2 veteran.
regards,
Ramon Rubia, SanMiguelEskrima, USA
Magtutudlo |
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| Rick_nz |
| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:39 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 1167
Location: Levin,New Zealand
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Hey Ramon,
Wecome to the Rapid Arnis forum,and what a great first post,i look forward to reading more from you.thank you for sharing your knowledge Ramon.
ps i just tidyd up the quotes you had ,at the begining of the post,
hope you dont mind.  |
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| Pat OMalley |
| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:22 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1025
Location: Everywhere
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Hi Brother Ramon,
Thanks for a great post, this book sounds more than interesting, when you have finished it I will definetly be having a copy. I am sure Lucy would love to add this to her list of products in her company  .
YBIFMA
Pat |
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| oosh |
| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:50 pm |
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Student
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Coventry UK
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| Great information, many thanks for sharing. |
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