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| Rick_nz |
 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:53 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 1167
Location: Levin,New Zealand
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Just a couple of questions on SME,
Just so our members have a better idea on what SME is.
1. Do you have grades /belt ranks in your system?if yes how many?
2. What is required to pass each grade or rank?
3. How long does it take to achieve black belt or equivalent status?
4. What makes SME different to Doce Pares multi-style and Doce Pares Eskrido? |
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YBIFMA
"Riki the PR Man"
“We have but one life and I intend to enjoy mine”.
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| lhommedieu |
| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:07 am |
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Senior Student
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 56
Location: East Northport, New York
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Rick_nz wrote: Just a couple of questions on SME,
Just so our members have a better idea on what SME is.
1. Do you have grades /belt ranks in your system?if yes how many?
2. What is required to pass each grade or rank?
3. How long does it take to achieve black belt or equivalent status?
4. What makes SME different to Doce Pares multi-style and Doce Pares Eskrido?
Riki (or do you prefer Rick?),
I'm on vacation in the Georgia sea islands right now, so all I have is a lap top with a dial-up connection; I'll answer your post more completely when I get back home.
Since we're not under the Doce Pares organizational umbrella we may teach things differently. I am also sure that we share a lot of things in common. Tom Bisio, my teacher, has always stressed that the version of SME that he learned from Momoy was a "slice" of a curriculum learned at a specific place and time while Momoy was stressing some aspects of the art and not stressing others. For example, Tom learned the fundamental aspects of espada y daga from Momoy but did not study knife, double knife, double axe etc.
If I may digress in a philosophical digression: learning martial arts is analogous to looking at one of those "mirror balls" that you used to see in discos during the '70's: you might catch a flash of light off of one of those tiny mirrors (among hundreds) as the ball slowly spins and that insight is your "window into" the whole of the meaning of the "ball." Other people may catch different "flashes" from different "mirrors" throughout the lifetime of the master teacher. But unlike the classic empiricist "three blind men and the elephant" story I believe that Momoy always taught foundationally so that each "mirror" as it were contained a holistic truth about the art. Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
1. Re. belts and grades, the San Miguel Eskrima Association has the following:
Green Belt
Brown Belt
Black Belt
Black Belt (teaching rank)
Senior Black Belt
We generally don't use belts, however, and one of the things that we decided was that once you've achieved black belt level you don't have to wear a belt.
2. I'll get back to you tomorrow.
3. Re. how much time: about a year for Green Belt, one year further for Brown Belt, two years further for Black Belt (approximately). Generally it should take about 4 years to recieve the first black belt rank, but times vary.
4. I should let others who know more about DPMS and Eskrido answer this one! I've met Cacoy a couple of times and have all of Chris Petrilli's excellent DVD series as referrence so perhaps it's fair to say that my impression of Eskrido is that it uses a much closer range and that it's internal mechanics is very close to what you would find a Judo or Aikido player using (Mr. Petrilli adds a Silat influence but the range is similar). Its understanding of how to use the stick as a locking device or lever is phenomenal. SME does have tie-ups, locks, and throws using the stick and dagger, but they are much more extended in nature compared to what I've seen of Eskrido - as you might expect.
Anyhow - my daughter is clamoring to go to the beach! Talk to you later.
Best,
Steve |
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| oosh |
| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:31 pm |
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Student
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Coventry UK
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"If I may digress in a philosophical digression: learning martial arts is analogous to looking at one of those "mirror balls" that you used to see in discos during the '70's: you might catch a flash of light off of one of those tiny mirrors (among hundreds) as the ball slowly spins and that insight is your "window into" the whole of the meaning of the "ball." Other people may catch different "flashes" from different "mirrors" throughout the lifetime of the master teacher. But unlike the classic empiricist "three blind men and the elephant" story I believe that Momoy always taught foundationally so that each "mirror" as it were contained a holistic truth about the art. Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. "
Very good analogy, thanks :) |
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| Rick_nz |
| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:14 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 1167
Location: Levin,New Zealand
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| lhommedieu |
| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:30 am |
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Senior Student
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 56
Location: East Northport, New York
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Rick_nz wrote:
So SME is more a largo - medio range art?
your belt system is fairly new isnt?
Im sure i read somewhere that rank with in SME was done as beginer - intermediate - senior - teacher and there were no belts.
Yes - more largo oriented than most arts; there is some medio range material as well.
Re. the belt system: it is fairly new. Some of the instructors felt that when visiting other schools it might be helpful to know what material a student had been taught. Other people didn't like a belt system which is why they said you didn't have to wear one if you were an instructor. I prefer to use "levels" as per the above.
Re. the question about the curriculum, above:
Level One (Green Belt):
• Angles of Attack and Striking Patterns
• Counters to the Angles of Attack
• The San Miguel Form
• Single Stick
• Dos Armas (Double Stick)
• Espada y Daga (Stick and Dagger)
• Ananangkil (50 Inch Stick)
• Bankaw (Spear)
• Stick and Dagger Disarms
• Combat Judo (Empty-Hand vs. Knife)
• Rapier and Dagger (Introduction)
Level Two (Brown Belt):
• Counters to the Angles of Attack (complete)
• The San Miguel Form (complete)
• Dos Armas Two Person Drills
• Espada y Daga Two Person Drills
• Espada y Daga Drills - Flowing
• Advanced Ananangkil Two Person Drills
• Stick and Dagger Disarms (complete)
• Combat Judo (Empty-Hand vs. Knife)
• Empty-Hand Self-Defense
• Rapier and Dagger Two Person Drills
• Single Stick Disarming
• Unarmed Disarms against Stick (complete)
• Counters to Stick Grabs
Level Three (Black Belt):
• Bankaw (Spear) Form
• Bankaw Two-Person Form
• San Miguel Form - Dos Armas
• Espada y Daga Drills (Complete)
• Palusot (Complete)
• Advanced Stick and Dagger Disarms
• Circle & Cross Form
• Combat Judo Two Person Form
• Advanced Rapier and Dagger Two Person Drills
Level Four (Black Belt – Instructor):
• Original Version of the San Miguel Form
• Advanced Form #1 - Bridging Form
• Circle & Cross Form - Dos Armas
• Balla Balla Redondo 1-4 (complete)
• Advanced Stick and Dagger Disarms (Complete)
• Free-Style Palusot
• Bullwhip
• Rapier and Buckler or Target
For Senior Instructors:
• Advanced Form #2
• Advanced Form #3
• Cadena (Chain)
• Throwing Knife
As stated above this may be a different curriculum compared to what others were taught; what matters is not the technques per se but the quality of the movement.
Best,
Steve |
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| Rick_nz |
| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:03 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 1167
Location: Levin,New Zealand
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Cheers Steve.
Again awesome post Steve.
Thanks for sharing your insight into SME
I just have a couple of questions for you.
What is the combat judo that your style uses?
Do you have a 12 strike system for Ananangkil ,Bankaw ?
Cheers again for sharing information about SME Steve.
Ps hope your having a good holiday mate. |
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"Riki the PR Man"
“We have but one life and I intend to enjoy mine”.
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| lhommedieu |
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:55 am |
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Senior Student
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 56
Location: East Northport, New York
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Rick_nz wrote:
What is the combat judo that your style uses?
Do you have a 12 strike system for Ananangkil ,Bankaw ?
Rick,
The combat judo that I learned generally consists of a stop followed by a lock. It's very basic technique - you don't see the tapping or passing skills that you see in other systems. I think that it is likely that it reflects a WWII influence but I'm not sure. There is also a two-man form that combines several techniques into a training sequence.
The nine striking angles for the Ananangkil are as follows:
a. Diagonal Forehand Slash to Neck or Collarbone
b. Diagonal Backhand Slash to Neck or Collarbone
c. Horizontal Forehand Slash to Waist, Hip, or Elbow
d. Horizontal Backhand Slash to Waist Hip or Elbow
e. Upward Forehand Diagonal Slash to Knee or Hip
f. Upward Backhand Diagonal Slash to Knee or Hip
g. Palm Down Sunket (Thrust)
h. Palm Down Sunket (Thrust)
i. Downward Slash to Crown
You can also practice sets from the amarra y arangar as well as patterns from the San Miguel Form.
Re. the Bankaw you can strike on the verticals, horizontals, and diagonals with both ends, thrust with palm up and palm down, and include simple twirls - but there isn't a codified striking system per se. There is a form and a two-man form that teaches basic striking and parrying skills.
SME spear isn't as sophistcated as what you might find in Chinese and Japanese martial arts, for example. Although quite servicable, it is intended to build attributes such as how to strike using the legs and waist and helps to student realize how his/her shoulders can link up to the rest of the body to create power. We use a six foot length of 1 1/4" inch hickory for this purpose, since it's somewhat heavy.
Best,
Steve |
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| lhommedieu |
| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:44 am |
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Senior Student
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 56
Location: East Northport, New York
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Just a follow-up. The following shows some basic ananangkil strikes and shows how parrying the ananangkil teaches you how to "stand in" against a heavy weapon. Generating the strikes takes some leg and waist movement and teaches a good body mechanic for the stick.
I've seen other versions of tapado that use a thinner, lighter weapon - and these versions are perhaps more oriented to actually fighting with a dos armas weapon per se. I think that the ananangkil that we're using are just too heavy for that purpose - but they make good training tools.
http://www.northshoreac.com/ananangkil.mpg
Best,
Steve |
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| depensaseguidas |
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:59 am |
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Student
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 5
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As an official representative of NMODE, DSG (Nong Momoy’s Orihinal Disciples Eskrima, DepensaSeguidasGroup) in the U.S; the lessons or training are based historically on the different eras of time from each personal student (older direct students) and of GM Momoy. In the earlier days of eskrima training according to his disciples, sparring (palusot principle- whether it was long or short) was emphasized right away. It was taught in a simple manner. Basically if you don’t get out of the way or deflect the weapon, you will get hit (cut) or poke.
The idea was to get across the student the mastery of being able not to get hit or to hit- but not to get hit (supposively the Saavedras idea of training). With the advent of sports eskrima (accepting to get hit), sometimes this simple idea (traditional) gets loss in time. Within this framework or mindset we develop a personal fighting style unique within each individuals natural abilities or capabilities. The SanMiguelEskrima system is just a starting or reference point. This also allows the tactics and strategies to develop right away.
Within the straight 5 years and more training with the “nongs”, I was taught to appreciate developing proper and correct movement of the body by way of mechanics thru precise positioning to get an advantage or recognizing a weakness of your opponent. Within this training one also develops a higher sensitivity or tactile sense (hikap-internal feel) when training one on one sparring with these individuals. Basic drills were taught, but it was just to introduce the student certain movements based on some principles they were trying to convey. A perspective often leads sometimes to a disagreement of movements. That’s why each good to have various opinions.
I was lucky enough to train with 2 of GM Momoys disciples (older direct students) who had the knack to articulate the what if, the don’t and do’s, the why’s and so forth. Right away you could see the movements and its application. These 2 eskrimadors had also the ability to explain the finer points of San Miguel Eskrima or Eskrima in general. They stand out because they had knowledge of speaking in English to communicate their thoughts and ideas to me. I thank them for sharing knowledge they learnt from GM Momoy during the 1950's and on. They basically taught the bahad/hagit way of learning eskrima. The rest, the training was rooted in observation (demonstrating various movements and then follow) with no explanation or minimal explanation.
Below are some of the key elements emphasized in the San Miguel Eskrima (Depensa Seguidas, Group) training that was taught to me to pass on as taught in the “random method approach of instruction”.
---Development of Skill and Knowledge thru time and maturity in the system
---History
---Terminology: correct use of it
---Principles of Eskrima based on scientific means
---Footwork: Taught from the beginning to establish Tactics and Strategies
---Mindset: Developing this mindset adheres to the thinking that the goal is not to get hit.
---Mastery of the Weapon (s) based on body mechanics in Relationship with the Blade Concept of the Empty Hands
Punta/Tumoy (the point or the tip)
Suwab/Sulab (the edge)
Ohas (the flat side)
Pul-an (the handle)
---Developing a Keen Eye
---Techniques: Correct and Proper Techniques are based with the understanding of the above.
---Palutsanay (Sparring- “free style”): The only way to teach rhythm, timing, tactics,
strategies, tactile sense and your truth based on finding out the strengths and weaknesses of each
individuals. This is where the palusot principle not the drill can be understood or attain.
-----DeCadena: to link and chain all the movements
From an understanding of some of these key elements, we evolved in the expression of the things we learn. An interesting story told to me by one of the older direct student of GM Momoy, which I appreciate and mention to students all the time, when opportunity arises. The story goes like this, “Learning San Miguel Ekrima is like a book. There are many messages or passages. First there is the abesedario (basic fundamentals drills), then comes the abri/ablisedario (opening the book of knowledge), and lastly pasaderio (pass on skill and knowledge)”.
Questions Rick let me know.
Regards,
Ramon Rubia, SanMiguelEskrima, USA
Magtutudlo |
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| Rick_nz |
| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:20 pm |
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 1167
Location: Levin,New Zealand
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Hey Ramon.
What a awesome post mate. 
Between you and Steve you guys are certainly enlightening me on your system of SME. 
Very much apreciated Ramon,thank you for sharing your knowledge |
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"Riki the PR Man"
“We have but one life and I intend to enjoy mine”.
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| Pat OMalley |
| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:03 am |
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Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 1025
Location: Everywhere
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These are great posts and I am sure they are helping many others including many of the DPMS apreaciate and understand more about SME and how although it's roots are the same, how and why they do things can and are often different to what many consider to be DP.
The random approach that our Brother Ramon speaks of from my own personal expeariance can at first be a very difficult way to learn but it also has a method to the madness. It may seem sort of random, but as with everything in SME it all links together in the end.
Great posts brothers, keep it comming.
YBIFMA
Pat |
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